April 9, 2009

Things I Think I Should Understand But Don't

I was planning something more substantial, I swear. But in doing so I started to develop this really bizarre mental list of things that I kinda feel like I should understand but, for whatever reason - stupidity, density, incompetence at being a 36 year old adult - I don't. To be honest, a lot of these things I really feel that I should understand. Like our mortgage. Witness the following conversation:

Me: Okay, so what's the deal with the whole points thing?
Beth: Are you serious?
Me: Yeah.
Beth: We've refinanced twice on two different houses. How could you not know?
Me: I know. But still? No fucking clue about points.
Beth: What would you do if anything ever happen to me?
Me: I'd cry. I'd enter a deep, dark depression while still managing to take care of the kids and being a darn good parent and then, frankly, I'd hire someone to take care of all that money shit.
Beth: Okay, good. Because if you try and do this yourself, you're fucked.

Anyway, aside from my mortgage, here's a quick brain dump of all that other stuff that I don't understand.

  • Country music
  • Ponzie schemes
  • Rush Limbaugh
  • Scientology
  • Gated communities
  • Google Analytics
  • Lindsay Lohan
  • Beer pong
  • Second Life
  • The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon
  • Actually, any book by Thomas Pynchon
  • Geometry
  • Love swings
  • John Travolta
  • Tie clips
  • Sweet pickles
  • Why, if the housing market is so bad, there are so many people looking at the house across the street.
  • Tea
  • Linux
  • That really weird scene in The Shining (the original, with Jack) in which those two ghost-dudes are dressed up as furry little animals.
  • Metallica
  • The embargo against Cuba
  • Family Circus
  • Prince
  • People on house hunting shows who bitch about paint colors when all they have to do is buy a damn brush.
  • Hugh Hefner
  • Whatever happens to a vast percentage of my paycheck.
  • Tighty whities
  • The PUMA
  • Near-beer
  • The Beastie Boys
  • Golf
  • The recession
  • Ultimate fighting
  • Midget porn

I'll accept the fact that I'm probably alone on these but I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone on all of them. So I'll ask you - what stuff do you just not get? And can you help me understand some of the stuff up there in my list?

Posted by Chris at April 9, 2009 6:43 AM

Haha, I am waiting for someone to say they "get" midget porn. :)

Posted by: alfredsmom at April 9, 2009 6:55 AM

I don't get economics AT ALL. I feel like a dumbass, but I don't understand how it all works. I just know I still have a job! I don't get beer pong, either.

Posted by: Stephanie at April 9, 2009 7:08 AM

I love country music. And saying that is a quick way to get you booed out of any group. I understand it because it's songs about family and life that people relate to. But I still don't like the really twangy stuff.
And I need to find a man like Beth ;) Because I suck at money.
And I'm definitely with you on sweet pickles and tighty whities. (Never the twain should meet!)

Posted by: Heather at April 9, 2009 7:10 AM

Okay, what's not to understand about love swings? boom chica bow bow. it's just somethin' different...not that i know these things first hand. i always wanted one though. WHAT?!?!

tea? i love tea. i'm drinking black tea as i type this...love tea.

john travolta? i totally get him and love him. Vinnie Barbarino-'nuff said.

LOL @ me not understanding how you can not understand half of the list.

Posted by: kimmyk at April 9, 2009 7:39 AM

One is not meant to be able to wrap their brains around Midget Porn. It is like Picasso during his Blue period or maybe like a Jackson Pollack painting. You are supposed to simply enjoy it for what it is.

Posted by: William at April 9, 2009 8:16 AM

I can explain the scene from The Shining.

It was just a flashback to a party full of drunken debauchery - a costume party of course. And the dudes were secretly gay.

At least that's how I understand it.

Posted by: donna at April 9, 2009 8:32 AM

As regards the scene in The Shining, I always assumed they were supposed to be furries (if you have not heard about furries, Google the term, but not from work). Which is something *I* don't get. I mean, I try not to judge, but I'm sorry, that stuff is just plain freakshow.

I also don't get the complicatedness of betting on football games. Why can't it just be:
"I'll bet the Cowboys win!"
"Yeah? I'll bet they don't!"
"OK, you're on!"
What's with all the points spread bullshit?

Posted by: Elise at April 9, 2009 8:35 AM

I'm so with you on the mortgage stuff. I'm in the middle of buying a house (our first) and our mortgage dude gave us a list with a breakdown of all the fees and such associated with the closing costs and I still don't get it.

I also don't get people who hate reading, women who spend thousands of dollars on shoes, and politics.

Posted by: Leah at April 9, 2009 8:42 AM

That is a pretty good list. I have had Pynchon
books on my list to read forever but never get to them... Maybe that is a good thing.

I do not get the housing thing either. If it is SO bad how are houses being bought and sold in our community like it is nothing and generally those houses are totally overpriced. It is weird.

But really, the Beastie Boys? For real - they are awesome??? They are the only "rap" band that is cool.

I always have to laugh at those house hunting shows as well and how people are like 'I cannot get past how it is decorated'. Pssssst... that is not YOUR furniture, is it now!? And the show always comes back a few months later to entire the house having been repainted and redone and holy crap the furnishings from the previous owners is GONE. Hence the word MOVING.

I did not help at all did I??

Posted by: Christina at April 9, 2009 8:44 AM

ooh I'm with you 100% on all those items!Especially geometry. I failed it once in HS now my 12 year old is studying it in 7th grade and I am clueless!

I also don't get Professional Wrestling, The Millennial Generation, NASCAR, FAUX news (FOX), American Idol and Dancing with the Stars, Tom Cruise, The Duggars and the Roloffs, Hummers, the metric system, ....and thats it off the top of my head. But I'm sure there is more. I find myself scratching my head daily saying "huh, I don't get it"

Posted by: Lisa at April 9, 2009 8:56 AM

I have a deep love for a few of the things on your list like Metallica, country music & John Travolta. The rest, I have NO clue.

On a sadder note, what *I* don't get is how a family could lose their 17 month old baby, it boggles my mind and hardly seems fair!

Also, the Duggars. I mean really, how has that woman's uterus not just said "fuck it" and abandoned ship?

Posted by: Kris at April 9, 2009 9:10 AM

Linux: It's free. Free as in beer (it doesn't cost any money) and free as in speech (you can change the source code however you want as long as you make those changes available to every body else at no cost.) Having a community of interested parties maintain the operating system (and many of the apps) leads to more stable software that is updated more frequently and reacts more quickly to bugs and vulnerabilities.

Posted by: COD at April 9, 2009 9:16 AM

You've basically got two categories here, Chris.
1) Money stuff, which can be explained. I'm pretty good at simplifying, if you're truly interested.
2) Human nature. Why do people WANT to do these things? Yeah, I think it's weird too, but we're all so different.

Posted by: Brad at April 9, 2009 9:25 AM

I used to love Family Circus...

Posted by: Dee at April 9, 2009 9:29 AM

See, I view Ultimate Fighting the same as I view NASCAR. Some people really get into the training, the science of it, but the vast majority are just waiting for a wheel to come off and launch into the crowd.

And gated communities? The only thing keeping them from having a moat as well is local zoning laws.

Posted by: J at April 9, 2009 9:39 AM

Beer pong, like midget porn as mentioned above, is to be enojoyed for what it is. You throw a ping pong ball at a cup and if it goes in, your opponent drinks it. It's really a win-win situation for both teams. If they suck at throwing, they get to drink what's left in all your cups; if they're good throwers, you get to drink the cups they sink the ball in. All in all, everyone's a winner in the end :)

P.S. - I don't get sweet pickles either. They're disgusting.

Posted by: Michelle aka Tortellina Temptress at April 9, 2009 9:39 AM

See, I view Ultimate Fighting the same as I view NASCAR. Some people really get into the training, the science of it, but the vast majority are just waiting for a wheel to come off and launch into the crowd.

And gated communities? The only thing keeping them from having a moat as well is local zoning laws.

Posted by: J at April 9, 2009 9:40 AM

damn. double post.

Posted by: J at April 9, 2009 9:41 AM

ok, I don't get how raising taxes is ever going to solve an economic crisis.

I. Don't. Get. It.

Where is Reagan when I need a hug? And an Answer?

Posted by: chatty cricket at April 9, 2009 9:44 AM

Sweet pickles! *blech* I understand Hugh Hefner, I just don't understand everything that goes on around him.

Posted by: Jenn at April 9, 2009 9:49 AM

Oh I'm with you on the points thing and I not only bought this house but refinanced it twice - so it's possible not to know. The rest of your list could be mine as well, but you left out a couple:

Why the National Christmas Tree at the White House is such a hot mess every year.

Fake eyelashes

Why people think Angelina Jolie is anything other than creepy.


WHO is watching Rush Limbaugh.

Why if the housing market is so bad, they are building new condos on every street corner in my city. Who is going to buy them?

Why my daughter needs to stand on every toy, book, or random item that she encounters on the ground.

Posted by: NG at April 9, 2009 9:51 AM

Dude, I have tried to read Pynchon so many times because people go on and on about how great he is, and he just doesn't do it for me.

I am also 100% with you on the sweet pickles thing.

As for the recession, I have a sneaking suspicion that even the smartest guys who are supposed to understand that stuff don't actually get it. Greenspan seems astonished that things have turned out this way.

Posted by: bad penguin at April 9, 2009 9:52 AM

We're in the middle of buying a house, and I'll readily admit that I have no idea financially what's going on. Yesterday I Googled "discount points" to get a clue, but the rest of it? No idea.

I also don't understand the current state of the housing market. It's so slow, yet our first choice house sold before we could put an offer in, and our new first choice house (which is soooo much better, so... win!) already has an offer on it (with a contingency, which we're hoping to bump). How is it that our house was on the market for 9 months, and absolutely no one is buying houses, yet the ones we want keep disappearing?

I also don't get... mint + chocolate. Um... why? Why would you do that to delicious chocolate? And reality television - who would do that to themselves (be on a show, watch a show)?

Posted by: Kelly at April 9, 2009 10:05 AM

Yeah, I don't get any of the stuff on that list. But you know what I really don't get? The stock market. I mean, I get how stocks go up and down and stuff, but what the hell does a stockbroker do? Why do we need stockbrokers? What the hell is going on when they're all out there on the floor screaming and holding up little pieces of paper? How does that make sense?

Also, I don't get betting. I mean, I get betting that someone will win or lose something, but that whole 7-to-1, 100-to-1 thing? How do they figure that out? How is that legit?

Posted by: Fraulein N at April 9, 2009 10:10 AM

Well, I don't understand Second Life that well either but it's Bryan's area of expertise (social media expert) so if you want a tutorial I know he'd be happy to help :-)

But yes! Those people on house hunting shows and paint colors! WTF dude?

(I like country music, too, btw. Can we still be friends?)

Posted by: samantha jo campen at April 9, 2009 10:12 AM

Wow, mortgage points, I didn't expect that when I opened your blog this morning....

1 mortgage point = 1% of your mortgage loan amount.
Example: 1 point on a $100,000 loan = $1,000
.75 point on a $100,000 loan = $750
It's that simple.
Rule of thumb that I've always heard is that it takes 7 years to make buying a point worth it. If you plan to sell or refi in that 7 years, don't bother buying the point.

Tea? What's so confusing about tea?
And Metallica, other than the fact that they sound better before they went into rehab....

Posted by: Rose at April 9, 2009 10:19 AM

And I always thought my inability to understand the embargo against Cuba was because I'm Canadian. Huh. :)

Yeah, I don't get golf either. And I'm not about to try to get it either - it's #2 on my "F*ck It list" post.

And ditto on the midget porn. Like WTF?

Posted by: Nenette at April 9, 2009 10:20 AM

midget porn - *shutter*

BUT TEA! That is the best creation ever! That lovely warm bitter taste melts all worries away!

Posted by: Amber at April 9, 2009 10:22 AM

You don't understand John Travolta? I luuuuuurve John Travolta. At least, I did until he got fat and started yammering about scientology all the time. BUT, I still have a little place in my heart for Johnny-boy. (And an autographed picture. Seriously).

I don't get:
Economics (failed it twice - can I get a whoohoo!?!)
The show "Lost"
Fantasy football
Why pot isn't legal yet (Never smoked it, don't wanna - but seriously... Think of the $$ for the US)

Posted by: sarah at April 9, 2009 10:22 AM

- How guys make boxers fit under their pants.. don't they bunch up?
- How my mortgage actually works.
- What my salary slip actually says.
- How in the world I just got that presentation dumped on my lap and I got through it on pure self confidence - I didn't doubt myself nor give them any chance to doubt me. Fucking hard work. :P

Posted by: Hannah at April 9, 2009 10:35 AM

My husband says "If I ever win the lottery, I am going to get a herd of midgets and make them all do my bidding, but they have to wear shirts that say minions!" I don't understand this fantasy so I can't help you on that one...but the Beastie Boys...that's easy, Mike D is Neil Diamonds son. It explains it all!

Posted by: alexandra at April 9, 2009 10:36 AM

The embargo against Cuba. I believe this stems from President Wilson's fear of a domino effect, where communist countries would infect other countries and make them communist, too. As the American government had/has a problem with communism (and Cuba allegedly let Russia put missiles on Cuba which could then reach American in the 60s), the US has had a trade embargo on Cuba ever since.

Does that help any?

Posted by: Hannah at April 9, 2009 10:39 AM

And I always thought my inability to understand the embargo against Cuba was because I'm Canadian. Huh. :)

Yeah, I don't get golf either. And I'm not about to try to get it either - it's #2 on my "F*ck It list".

And ditto on the midget porn. Like WTF?

Posted by: Nenette at April 9, 2009 10:53 AM

So I didn't read through all the comments because I'm waiting for a violin student. But I think I can solve the tea thing. I live near a tea factory and have gone on their tour 2481843845 times with each out of town guest who visits. They have a tea room with just black tea and when you enter they ask who dislikes the smell. and then they ask who of those people drinks 2 or more cups o joe a day. And every time we all raise our hands in solidarity. They say if you drink a lot of one you won't enjoy the other nearly as much. That room smells like nasty, I'm sticking with my coffee.

Posted by: Liz at April 9, 2009 11:00 AM

Chris your list made me laugh. Mostly because I feel the same way about many of the items on your list. I went home to visit my parents and my mom not only had all country radio stations but all country CDs in the player of her car as well. I felt like I was trapped in the Grand Ole Opry from hell. :)

Posted by: Julie Andel at April 9, 2009 11:17 AM

Dude, family circus was how I learned to read.
That and Let's Talk About books.
And Metallica? No clue.
But I do know all the drum parts of that band and Black Sabbath by heart from falling asleep listening to my dad practice.
Some people hear devil worship, but I just get nostalgic.

Posted by: Cri at April 9, 2009 11:44 AM

Seriously? You don't get the Beastie Boys? Like you don't like them or you don't understand them or you don't understand why people like them? They are my numero uno all time favorite band. There is an immense joy in most of what they write. There performances are high energy fun. They also have a serious side. They play their own instruments and are heavily influenced by old school hip hop, punk, and jazz. I think you need to give them another try. I mean, you gave beer another try and realized how awesome it is, right? Did you know that Adam Horovitz (aka Ad Rock) is the son of playwright Israel Horovitz and the film Author! Author! with Al Pacino is based on his story? His sister Rachel was the producer of About Schmidt. I don't know why this took me so aback that you don't understand them.

Posted by: Amy at April 9, 2009 11:57 AM

I get and love country music. Good country. Not Shania Twain country. Or bad adult contemporary Christian music disguised as country. George Jones, Allison Moorer, Gary Allen, Johnny Cash country. I suggest listening to Neko Case's "Guided by Wire," which pretty much sums up my deep and abiding love for country music.

A few people have pointed out that they don't get economics, but, more specifically, I don't get economISTs. Or why we listen to them. As far as I can tell, they are just theorists playing with ideas about how things MIGHT work. Not about how things actually DO work. And their theories are always radically different. So who do we listen to? Do we just pick the theory that agrees with our own personal theory? And then we govern by this theory? Which may or may not actually work in practice?

Yeah. Don't get it.

Posted by: Alias Mother at April 9, 2009 12:00 PM

I'm with ya on a lot of these...and I'll add: The whole Twilight thing - books and movie.
Baseball hats worn askew (straight backwards is ok though) - wtf? why?
bowling on tv
"rings" for every championship under the sun
graduations other than high school and college. (Kindergarten grad gowns? Please.)

things I get -
tea, iced anyway. I AM a southern girl after all.
sweet pickles - can't make tuna salad without it!
Prince - the man is a funky music machine!

Posted by: Sue R at April 9, 2009 12:41 PM

I can help with the Sweet Pickles. My favorite as a kid....


Posted by: elissa at April 9, 2009 1:07 PM

With the exception of tea, which I learned to love because I hate the taste of coffee, I'm right there with ya on all of those.

Posted by: Jess at April 9, 2009 1:54 PM

The secret to listening to country music is to not take it seriously. Listen to it for its camp value, and you'll have a lot more fun. Assume most of it will be ridiculous and over the top, and then you'll occasionally be pleasantly surprised by a song that has actual lyrical/musical value.

This segues nicely into an opportunity to tell the one joke I can ever remember:

What happens when you play a country song backwards?

Ya get yer dog back...
Ya get yer truck back...
Ya get yer job back...
Ya get yer girl back...

Posted by: PirateBikeGrl at April 9, 2009 1:55 PM


I'm not sure I SHOULD understand them so much as I don't.

Posted by: Jodi at April 9, 2009 3:19 PM

seriously with the sweet pickles. :(
And what is up with Google Analytics. I've never seen a stat counting software be so confusing. You might as Beth about that paycheck thing. :D

Posted by: Jen at April 9, 2009 4:03 PM

Hilarious - Bryan TOTALLY had to explain Ponzie schemes to me last night. I can tell you know if you want to know.

And Second Life - WHAT THE FUCK.

Posted by: Aimee Greeblemonkey at April 9, 2009 5:01 PM

I'm totally with you in cluelessness, except for the following:
Geometry (there's a beauty)
Sweet pickles (store bought- yuk. Homemade- MANNA FROM HEAVEN)
Metallica (Even the early stuff? Who ARE you?)
The Beastie Boys (What can I say- it's FUN)

Posted by: heels at April 9, 2009 5:53 PM

Why I can't get pregnant. Sorry for the downer comment - but it's been a rough week.

Posted by: Amy at April 9, 2009 6:02 PM

Why I can't get pregnant. Sorry for the downer comment - but it's been a rough week.

Posted by: Amy at April 9, 2009 6:03 PM

Things I do not understand:
Why so many liberals support giving money to billionaire fat cats. I always thought they claimed to be the anti-corporate party of the little guy.
Why congress continually has such a low approval rating, but people keep re-electing incumbants.
Why people think criminals will follow gun control laws.
Why people believe pedifiles can be rehabilitated, eventhough all scientific data and analysis shows it is not possible.
Why so many people don't understand that our enimies only respect strength. Strength is the only path that leads to peace.
Why someone can sleep with as many people as they want to, but as soon as someone cuts a check, They become a criminal.
Why things like sociallism and national healthcare have failed so many times around the world, but people continue to support them and try to move these programs forward.
Why people still believe in the government. How many times will it have to fail before everyone realizes they cannot run things well.
Why we are setting up a society where bad behavior is rewarded and people that act justly become burdened.
Why people still believe in global warming eventhough it has been disproven over and over again.
Why people vote for the nice guy they want to have a beer with when in fact the policy is the only thing that affects your life.
Why people belive in an international community.
Why people continue to vote for career politicians and why they don't demand better options.
How Barak Obama got elected to be the leader of the greatest nation in the land when he has never had as much as a
lemonade stand.

Posted by: Tess at April 9, 2009 6:13 PM

What's not to get about tea. I love tea. (Hot naturally, if it's about iced tea then no I don't get it either.)

Ummmm... Things I don't get:
Celine Dion's popularity
Bridge (the card game)
Quantum physics
... and any sort of theory on making money on investments.

Posted by: Nat at April 9, 2009 8:08 PM

My mortgage doesn't have "points", as far as I know. If it does, I guess I don't get it. All I need to understand is the recession is good for me, my mortgage is super low.

Gated Communities: I'm so good that only people as good as me can get in to my community. (my super good mortgage rate is sure not paying for a house in a gated community!)

Lindsay Lohan: Child stardom destroys life.

Posted by: Heather at April 9, 2009 9:14 PM

My mortgage doesn't have "points", as far as I know. If it does, I guess I don't get it. All I need to understand is the recession is good for me, my mortgage is super low.

Gated Communities: I'm so good that only people as good as me can get in to my community. (my super good mortgage rate is sure not paying for a house in a gated community!)

Lindsay Lohan: Child stardom destroys life.

Posted by: Heather at April 9, 2009 9:14 PM

Great list!
What's not to get about sweet pickles besides the fact that they're AWEsome! In fact we have sweet midgets in the fridge - I don't think they're engaging in porn however :)
Along with Geometry, I'd add Algebra 1 and 2 to that list. I fear my challenge with math started with Long Division in 3rd grade. In fact talk about anything involving numbers (other than a profit and loss statement) and my eyes just glaze over.

Posted by: NancyJak at April 9, 2009 9:30 PM

The Lord Of The Rings.

All my life I was so intimidated because I couldn't get through The Hobbit without choking on my own sleep-drool, so I never attempted TLOTR (it's even got it's own acronym. Nerds). Then came the movie(s) and Max was all "OMG I have to go to the first showing at midnight" (thankfully, no costumes) and then "we have to rent them all, THEN you'll understand".

Oh yeah. I get that you don't get the rest of that. Esp Beer pong. I don't even get what it is I don't get. Is that beer bong? Because I don't get that, but I know what it is.

And Geometry: dude, it's just a language describing our physical space. At least the parts of it with straight edges & angles. And round ones.

So I dutifully watched them all with him and pretty much was enjoying until the end and then "Ghost Pirates??? What the fuck? It's going badly for them so they dredge up Ghost Pirates? I'm outta here" He watches them alone now.

Posted by: harmzie at April 9, 2009 10:06 PM

ha! editing over time with many windows open [& ahem perhaps some imbibing] not good. My previous comment a little -er- disjointed. Sorry.

Posted by: harmzie at April 9, 2009 10:09 PM

midget porn! lol

Posted by: raino at April 9, 2009 11:24 PM

love it. I agree with many of those, especially the country music thing. I think it should be banned.

Posted by: La Petite Belle at April 10, 2009 7:48 AM

yep. the midget porn is odd for sure. not like we even hear about tall mans/womans porn, now do we

Posted by: raino at April 10, 2009 12:04 PM

yep. the midget porn is odd for sure. not like we ever hear about tall mans/womans porn, now do we

Posted by: raino at April 10, 2009 12:05 PM

The tea/coffee thing might have something to do with biology. I always thought coffee tasted like a cross between burnt motor oil and blood. As it turns out, once I did force myself to drink it, I'm allergic to the stuff, which largely explains why I never liked it. But tea... tea is a wonderful thing.

The Crying of Lot 49 may be summed up as: "They really are out to get you, and you may never know why. So just relax and enjoy what you get to find out."

I don't get people who have nothing to say to you after you say you've never had cable TV.

Posted by: Kat at April 11, 2009 8:51 AM

I'm completely there with you on Second Life. I just don't see the appeal.

Tea: now here's where I can help you. I am deeply in love with tea. All kinds. In a pot, in a cup. Herbal, black, red. Cold, hot. Loose or in a bag. It is simply all kinds of wonderful in many, many ways. AND it's healthy.


Posted by: jessica at April 11, 2009 8:04 PM

I didn't get The Crying of Lot 49 either. In fact, I just returned the audio version to the library - half listened to - because I didn't get it. That you didn't get it either makes me feel ever so much better.

Posted by: GreenCanary at April 13, 2009 10:51 AM

what? they remade The Shining? WHAT?

also...furry animals? i have seen that movie 100 times and totally don't remember that?

Posted by: ali at April 15, 2009 3:39 PM

Desperate Housewives, soap operas,
why I like the new 90210 and get excited when I catch it on,
the purpose of 927 television channels when many of them are repeats of other channels and/or 24 hours of infomercials,
411 automated system when 97% of the time a live operator needs to intervene anyway,
why it would be much easier for me to fit properly in restaurant booths and find age-appropriate clothes in my size if I gained 200 pounds.

Posted by: Karen at April 22, 2009 2:34 PM

Ha ha, I found this page when I googled "What's the deal with midget porn?" That should answer your question. I don't get midget porn. I also don't get golf, scientology and a few other things you listed. Another thing I don't get is stalkers. What a bunch of weirdos they are. Oh, and I don't get how someone like Jim Breuer or Colin Quinn could get their own TV show.

Posted by: A. Nonymous at July 10, 2009 8:35 PM

I opine that to get the personal loans from creditors you should present a firm motivation. But, one time I have received a car loan, just because I wanted to buy a house.

Posted by: PierceKarin30 at June 2, 2011 9:56 PM